Friday, March 9, 2018

It's Really Pointless It Seems But I Try

I was going through the inner workings of my blog this morning and came across this unpublished piece I'd written a couple years ago. It details a conversation I'd had with a former co-worker. It didn't end well, in fact, we haven't spoken since. He left me with this:

"I'm afraid Kevin that you have hardened your heart against the Lord so bad that there may be no turning back. You need to repent my friend. I mean that sincerely. I'm afraid the only God you serve is the one you created in your mind. I'll continue to rely on the Bible, the Word of God."

Here's the previously unpublished entry.

I was going to blog today but I've been involved in a Facebook Messenger discussion and it's sucked up a good deal of the time I was going to use. I got to thinking that maybe my most recent reply to my friend can suffice for an entry because it touches on so many things that are playing out in our world today with the marrying of Christianity and politics.

My friend is a very conservative, fundamentalist Christian.

My most recent reply to my friend:

Let me get this right because I don’t want to make assumptions that I shouldn’t. You’re okay with having our teachers in a public school setting proselytize to students and try and win them over to Jesus but you won’t allow others who may profess a different faith to influence impressionable minds in a similar way?

Is that correct?

I have a real problem with that and yes, I am a Christian and I believe that Christianity is the only way to God but we’re not talking about a parochial school, we’re talking about a state school; a school that is to be devoid of religiously influencing our kids and for good reason. It’s fundamental to our Constitution.

Can I not be a good Christian and believe that as a society we need laws that protect all citizens to live their lives freely as they choose?

Let me ask you this: if someone came up to you and said that Christianity is of the devil and that it’s all wrong I’m guessing you would look at the person, shake your head and think to yourself how screwed up they are in their thinking, Right? How do you suppose people of a faith other than Christianity feel when you, in so many words, say essentially that by your words or by your actions? Do you suppose that endears them to this faith you follow? Would having them tell you that your Jesus was actually satan endear you to their faith? You have to step outside your bubble and realize that not everybody thinks the way you or I do and that in a free society there has to be respect and room for other people to live their lives as they see fit. You don’t own them.

Do you honestly think the gay individual who has suffered ridicule at the hands of religious people or the child who has been abused by church staff is going to feel the same about Christianity as you do? I can’t imagine they would yet you want to go about living your life and expecting others to march right along with you with no consideration whatsoever for their upbringing. That’s shallow thinking.

It’s not enough to simply say to every point I bring up that Christianity is right. End of story. Nothing more to discuss. That doesn’t work for these people who you would sooner write off as lost souls in love with satan because they happen to have been raised with a belief system different than your own.

Have you ever questioned your faith?

Continuing on. Do you also feel it’s okay to have Christian symbols on display exclusively on state and federal property, meaning no other faith shall be allowed to display their religious symbols in a similar way?

Is that correct?

Again, I think you’re wrong here if that is your belief. Yes, I know, you feel that because our religion is the only right one, that it doesn’t matter in the least what others say. Again, if that’s your belief, it’s one that bears no resemblance whatsoever to our Constitution and unless you’re living in some sort of exclusive, religious, gated community, that sort of thinking is unacceptable in a society with differing views.

I’ll ask again: are you okay with an intolerant society here in America much like you see in the Middle East? Is that the direction you’d like to see us move? It clearly seems that way to me.

You say “Of course these deceived people will be offended. Jesus offends. The gospel offends. The truth offends.” I have to wonder if you’re offended by the words of Jesus to love your enemies? It seems to me that for you those words are such an inconvenient thing for him to have left us with. I see how it bothers you and you would sooner minimize their importance and move on but I cling to those words, especially now in a day when Christians all around me are so filled with hate and not the love of Jesus as they talk of waging war on Islam or turning their backs on refugees who need us. Of course, not all Christians, but far too many, especially those in positions of power who are running campaigns on making sure we can all keep our guns, carpet-bombing the Middle East and oh yeah, loving Jesus. Don’t you see how absolutely warped that appears to some of us who really care about our faith and how it’s been hijacked by a political party that has nothing in common with Jesus in any way? And it seems to me that you’re falling for it.

When I said your view is an extremely narrow one I was referring to the way you discriminate against others who don’t believe as you and therefore aren’t worthy. At least that’s the sense I’m getting from what you’re saying when you talk about firing or not hiring people of a different faith. And no, Jesus never said a lot of things but he did leave us with some general instruction and I choose to follow that. He was a very inclusive man yet you’ve found a way to disregard that quality of his in your worldview. That’s disappointing.

Another word for “political correctness” is “respectful”. I’d prefer people like Trump gain some political correctness at a time when there’s enough rudeness and bigotry already. We need less, not more. I’m sorry you feel we need more of it and I have to ask, what part of Jesus do you see in Trump’s rudeness that you admire?

You spoke of the many times you’ve stood on principle with your beliefs regarding sin in the church. We’re all in continual sin. It’s a fantasy to think that any of us can live a life not immersed in sin and that any of us are righteous enough to stand before others and say that we’re deserving of whatever the position is in the church that we’re desirous of because we don’t sin the way others do.

Let me expand on the one example you spoke of about the woman who you supported kicking out of the choir. Are you certain that she was only leaving her husband because “she just wanted to”? Do you know if her husband was verbally abusive toward her or if he had a pornography addiction or alcohol addiction or another woman in his life that she was covering up for him in order to protect his reputation? No, of course, you can’t know any of that. People in those circumstances don’t always come across as you would expect. I actually know of a situation where this same sort of thing happened and the people in the church had no clue what they were doing yet they went ahead and meted out their church justice to a woman undeserving of it. Shame on them!

Yes, I realize that I was being judgmental with you when I used that word about you. Sometimes there’s no way around it to get to the point. You know that.

So I’m a “fellow Christian who is not proclaiming a Biblical Christianity”. Yes, I believe differently than you. If you’d like to rely on the OT (Old Testament) for direction, please do so but realize that when you don’t embrace it all you then become the one who is picking and choosing, not me. I can think of many OT instructions that we’d both find extremely abhorrent today: requiring your daughter who was raped to marry her rapist being on the top of that list. Care to wanna embrace that one?

I’m looking at your list of headlines and the first one is of a coach who was given the boot for his prayers at the 50-yard line. Again, you love your Constitution when it comes to the 2nd amendment but what about the 1st amendment, the separation of church and state? The coach, acting in a position of authority by a government entity is a devout Christian. What if he’d been a devout Muslim and had players spread out their prayer cloths to pray. You’d be throwing a fit and rightly so. And no, it’s not enough to say that Christianity is the only way and nothing else matters; not in a free society where you don’t own other people's thoughts and you don’t get to decide what they believe. It’s called being respectful and it doesn’t mean you’re agreeing with satan or any number of ways you can twist it to make your point.

You have several headlines about Christmas. Do you really think Jesus likes this thing we do in his name each year? Do you really think he likes the way Christians all over the planet go into a frenzy of materialism to celebrate the birthday (he was actually born in May I believe but hey, that’s a whole other story) of a man who despised materialism? And you want to protect this? I wish the church would disassociate itself from Christmas the way Jehovah's Witnesses have done. It’s the right thing to do. But it’s profitable for Fox News to continue this ridiculous “war on christmas” narrative they love to trot out each year.

I do think you mean well but your approach to Christianity (at least in my view) is akin to a bull in a china shop in that you can do a lot more damage than good by the way you approach many of these divisive topics of the day. You don’t get to own people and tell them how to think by insisting that only your religion is right and that theirs is all wrong. They have every right to become defensive when you tell them that only Christians get to do this or get to do that. To bring the OT into play and say that God discriminated there so it’s okay for us to do it today is really a stretch and if your goal is to win hearts and minds for Christ, it has about as much chance of succeeding as our ill-conceived foray into Iraq.

I haven't hardened my heart toward God in the least. What I have done though is harden my heart toward a version of Christian that pretends to speak for God in a most pharisaical way, always focused on the law and the sin of others and not their own failings.

You can think what you want about me but you know very little about me, actually. I'm sorry that you're so rigid in your interpretation of scripture that you can't allow anyone to question a book that has man's hands all over it and with great influence. I think it's foolish to not think that man may have somehow corrupted scripture. Look how man has corrupted the church. Man has corrupted everything he's ever touched. Apparently, to you it's a deal-breaker to ever question your faith. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Thanks for your time. I very much appreciate this conversation with you.


David Bryan Gilmore said...

Well said and articulated Bro..
All the while I'm thinking about this You Tube video I just watched about two men that were facing their impending deaths.
One a very faithful Jew and the other more than likely an agnostic unbeliever but expressing their thoughts through there words and music.
Here is the link:
And then there is the notion that "my" version of "christian" is the correct one and all others are a fractured and misled group.
The numbers vary but s website describes a possible 217 to 55,000 variations of the Christian faith. And you could say that they can't all be correct in their interpretation of their version of the writings decades and hundreds of years after the death of Jesus. Most were nothing more than letters written to a specific group of people to address problems within those groups.
Here is a link to that website;
When judge Roy Moore was running for the senate and was called out by many women for acting more or less as a pedophile all the while effective banging his Baptist bible trying to show his Christian beliefs along with riding in on a horse and packing a little revolver made him the best choice for that high office I finally spouted off about how someone I work with was similar. A staunch Baptist with a bible based extreme view on things and coming down on me for listening to New Age music as it's of the devil. Then realizing later that he has a huge collection of printed porn and spends a lot of times at the strip clubs when he was on the road. I mentioned this not as my own post on Facebook but in a conversation with someone and a friend read it and immediately unfriended me and blocked me. And I realize he thought I was talking about him. I wasn't, I was talking about my boss at the time. Crazy stuff. And while I know I'm no saint either, I don't try to force feed anyone my religious values or beliefs.

John A Hill said...

I'm with you, my brother.
Of course, I've pretty much been kicked out of my Southern Baptist church, so that may not be a good thing.
I will say I'm pretty comfortable with my beliefs in Jesus and welcome your company as we walk this journey called life.

David Bryan Gilmore said...

I spent half an hour writing and posting a well thought out comment and when I tried to post it after confirming I'm not a robot it disappeared.

Kevin Gilmore said...

Thank you. I'm not sure why I never published this earlier. Perhaps I wanted to get back to it and discuss more of my conversation with my co-worker. In the end, he was very upset with me that I would dare to question scripture. He felt I had disrespected him and God for posing the questions I had. It's odd because all the while we're having our conversation I kept wondering what his faith would look like had he been born a Muslim. Would he have ever questioned it or would he have embraced it as he does Christianity?

The co-opting of the Christian religion by conservatives and the Republican party has caused me to question everything. I've been one to do that for the longest time but never more so than now. If Christianity can be so thoroughly corrupted as our Americanized version of it most certainly is, who's to say that the message hasn't also been corrupted along the way, as in from the beginning by men with agendas?

I'm a skeptical Christian these days -- one who is a lot less certain of things I used to never doubt. I believe in a higher power but I'm no longer of the opinion that unless you confess that Jesus is Lord, you're going to hell. I think that's such a narrow and small view of the God of the universe.

My faith-life has been a journey and I expect it to continue to be as long as I'm alive, and I'm okay with that.

David Bryan Gilmore said...

I mentioned to you before that I too share some of your doubts about the stories in both versions of the bible, old and new, as indeed they were written by ignorant men, ignorant by today's standards and as you suggest, repeating a story they have heard from other men and along the way those stories have more than likely changed depending on the views of the story teller.
Most people during those times could not read or write in any language and so any kind of fact checking is impossible.
Jesus was indeed a rebellious Jew and this ultimately lead to his death on the tree.
And much of what he preached in his day would be somewhat the same that we "snowflakes" espouse as the things we need to support. Not as any right winger says as he wraps himself in the flag and treats the second amendment like his true religion.
I see many facets of religious beliefs to have their good points. You can cherry pick those that support your views and skip those that run against the grain of your views. The old testament is full of those values and the men in those days were nothing more than people we might consider criminals by today's standards.
I'll sign off for now as I think you understand my take on things.
Incandescently it's been a while since I used the embedded a URL in a line of text so forgive me if I didn't do that in the last comment.

Kevin Gilmore said...

I always find it a curious thing that for as profound a man as Jesus was in the world, it took men decades to sit down and collect their thoughts about him in writing. And they actually had scribes back then. That was their job! Something's not right with that.

This blind acceptance thing is more and more concerning to me as I see how conservative media today has divided us and brainwashed such a large segment of our society to the point where Trump* is the one they rally behind. It is stunning the lengths that they will go to defend him and overlook his actions. Our minds are so easily manipulated if we're not astute enough to recognize that it's happening.

Kevin Gilmore said...

Thanks, John, for your comment. This one slipped by unnoticed until now.

Your being kicked out of your Southern Baptist church says more about them than it does about you. They would probably kick Jesus out as well for that matter. Perhaps they actually have.

David Bryan Gilmore said...

I had to laugh at the "Incandescently" spell check my browser made.

Kevin Gilmore said...

Haha! Yeah, I noticed. But you're getting old so I let it slide. ;)